Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art | by James Nestor

[Noa Kageyama]

As much as I enjoy reading science books written by writers or journalists (e.g. Malcolm Gladwell, etc), I’m always a little wary and skeptical because I think there’s a tendency to focus on telling a compelling story, and then selectively looking for data to support that story. You’ll often see anecdotal evidence featured prominently or unpublished non-peer-reviewed studies, for instance. Whereas researchers who have written books (e.g. Angela Duckworth) are better at looking at all of the research and seeing what story emerges from the data, whether that story is as compelling or neat and tidy as one might want it to be…

That said, as I put that bias aside for a moment, my main takeaway is that I’m sort of shocked at how terrible mouth breathing seems to be from Nestor’s description. And not just the physiological issues associated with mouth breathing, but the learning and attentional and performance related issues as well.

My son actually gave me mouth tape for my birthday. Sort of as a gag gift, but also partly out of genuine curiosity. You’re supposed to tape your mouth shut at night so your body is forced to breathe through your nose for the entire night. I’ve been a little afraid to try out, but now I’m inclined to give it a try and see if I feel any differently after sleeping this way.

[Jessica Platt (violin)]

I’m just replying to stay in the group. This past week was a bust. Sorry. I’m positive this next week will be better. I’ve had strange discussions with outside people about this and they aren’t exactly things to share. (;

I enjoyed trying the techniques from my first week of reading.

[Bonnie Bowman (Cello)]

Before committing to this club I listened to part of a book summary of this book. Only part because it was so dull. Meanwhile I discovered the local library had a copy so I checked it out and signed up anyway. In contrast to the summary, Nestor is a very engaging writer and the two chapters read quickly. I am intrigued by his insistence on nose breathing, both in the examples he chooses and the physiological implications. I started Leisner’s book Playing With Ease a short while ago and in the first chapter he suggests we breathe through our mouths. I was uneasy about this, and Nestor certainly gives me a comeback. However, I am a wary reader of one-sided arguments. I look forward to reading how he describes the second part of his experiment, after the nose plugs come out.

Soon after checking out the book, Facebook ads for mouthtape started popping up on my feed. Noa, I’m interested in the results of your experience with the tape. For now, I just try to close my mouth whenever I catch myself mouth breathing. We’ll see if it begets even more nose breathing.

[Scott]

At least two horn friends have enthusiastically recommended this book to me in the past year, so I’d actually obtained it a few months back but hadn’t yet dug in. (I’d actually bought it for both my wife and I since she seemed really intrigued when my friend was telling us about it, but it turns out she was mostly just interested in its possibilities to curtail my snoring. 😅)

<font face=”inherit”>I also was really surprised by all the potential ramifications of mouth breathing. I had never really thought about it, but was probably in the camp that assumed </font>mouth and nose breathing were functionally interchangeable from a general health standpoint. Based on claims he makes in the book I wouldn’t be surprised at all if I spend a significant portion of my sleeping breathing through my mouth. I’ve been doing yoga fairly regularly since a few classes in college, so perhaps that has made nose breathing during the day slightly more natural than it otherwise might have been, but of course in playing a wind instrument I’m still mouth breathing quite a bit through the day. Though interestingly I have often experimented with nose inhalation even when playing – it goes all the way back to when I was in middle school and went to a Canadian Brass masterclass in which they said they were all experimenting with nose inhalation while playing; I’ve always liked things about nose inhaling while playing ever since, but also felt like I was somehow not doing the “proper” thing so it was always a conflicted appreciation. I also found the study about nose vs mouth breathing during intense exercise really interesting – I always assumed / had heard that once you hit a certain point of exertion mouth breathing is just what you do. At any rate, I’ll be really curious to continue to the next few chapters!

[Makiko Takahashi (Piano)]

It’s been interesting for me to read how bad mouth beathing is from Nestor’s point of view. Coincidentally, I have been trying to do excersise for my tongue which will help me to do mouth breathing. Apparently this tongue exercise helps to strengthen the tongue. As a consequence, it will prevent my mouth from opening up (for mouth breathing) according to a Japanese doctor.

This issue (how bad mouth breathing is opposed to nose breathing) was raised as a health concern in Japanese media/books many times (for the same reasons as Nestor). So I have been trying to do nose breathing instead of mouth breathing. So Nestor’s argument has confirmed that I should keep trying to do nose breathing. It will be very interesting how his research develops later on.

[Ray Gornik (piano)]

Noa, I too am skeptical of the hype. The deep diving section got me wondering how beneficial this book could be. Then I started reading the notes on page 231 along with the text and was pleasantly surprised by the depth of Mr. Nestor’s research. My mind is much more open. As an aside, I’m rethinking my exercise routine to spending more time nose breathing after reading the mouth breathing section. BTW there are a lot of interviews of him on YouTube that are interesting. I also took away some information of heart rate and maximizing exercise results. I confess I did read ahead and have already tried some of the breathing techniques. My last live performance a few years back was accompanied by a 145-bpm heart rate as I sat in the audience waiting my turn to perform. I’m a 70-year-old and am looking for solutions to bring this level of anxiety to a more manageable level. I’m hopeful this book will move me in that direction.

[Jessica Platt (violin)]

This is a great place for me to start breathing in a more mindful way!

[Angela Alves (piano)]

Thought I might be behind as I had to wait for a library copy, but got notice on Friday and its written so well its a quick read.

I can definitely see issues with mouth breathing and I know I am more comfortable (and rarely do breathe through my mouth though have a high palate and crooked teeth …) breathing through my nose at all times and don’t have sleep/snoring issues.

Looking forward to finding out more. I am really interested on if there’s explanations for increasing body temperature … I’m always freezing.

[Julia Pritz (harp)]

So far quite interesting and easy to read but in my opinion the chapters are somewhat lacking content (I don’t know exactly how to put it – there is a lot of storytelling if you know what i mean).

Chapter 1 takeaways: the fact that evolution has led to todays „breathing problems“ was interesting.

Chapter 2 takeaways:

– the next time i go for a run i will try to breathe through my nose

– the statements that (constant?) mouthbreathing transforms the airways, impairs sleep, is associated with ADHS and makes (rats) dumber were interesting. That these are partially reversible through nosebreathing alone sounds a bit too good to be true for me.

[Regula Dodds]

I’m reading this book for the second time now. I read it in July when it first showed up as a recommendation on bulletproof. I’m reading the book in German since I feel more comfortable with medical expressions in German. I was really excited the first time around. Excited about breathing right being the solution to all health problems. But is it really? You can you really get rid of asthma by breathing properly? Of ADHS? Of high blood pressure? Depression? It sounds too good to be true. I do find it very interesting to read about how the human skull has developed and changed due to the brain using up more space and how that affects our breathing. Looking forward to going on! Have a good start into the week.

[Diane Lipartito (bassoon)]

For me, listening to the book on Audible is a little easier, so I used one of my credits to put it in my library. I have, for pretty much as long as I can remember, breathed through my nose during the day, unless I have a cold. I’m not 100% sure about night time. I think when I was younger it was mostly nose breathing, but as I get older, my nose sometimes gets a little stuffier when I lie down, so it may be a combo. I have always breathed through my mouth when playing because I was taught that way and, though I am very comfortable with nose breathing, I feel like I can get more air through my mouth. I am interested in someday learning circular breathing which uses both. One of the discomforts I have with mouth breathing, in general (not playing music), is that it tends to dry out my lips which I hate. I had a really bad sinus infection abut 10 years ago. I’m not prone to them, but its a long story which entails having had a virus and through a series of unfortunate simultaneous events, it got into my sinuses. Because of this I had to breathe through my mouth, exclusively, for about 2 weeks and it was one of the most miserable things ever. I could not keep my lips moist. My lower lip actually got thinner by the time it was over because I instinctively was rubbing it a lot due to dryness during this illness which I found out later is not a great thing to do. When I listened to the part about him plugging up his nose, I had a really visceral reaction, like some of his friends: ‘No! DON’T DO IT. It’s a bad idea,’ etc.

I did yoga a lot in my 20’s and experimented with alternate nostril breathing and some of the other yoga breaths. I also took quite a few classes in a concept called Continuum Movement developed by a woman named Emilie Conrad in CA back in the 90’s and early 2000’s. She used a number of different breaths in her work too. The ones that were through the nose and not the mouth were always more comfortable for me as they tended to help my diaphragm to relax a little more. All of these have been very informative and part of my long road to having a more integrated breathing apparatus which has been a challenge from early on starting probably with PTSD and possible some suggestions about how to breathe which were not helpful to my particular case, such as belly breathing which, I recently concluded, has made things worse and causes my back to be very tight. I don’t know if he will get into the diaphragm, how it works, how it can get stuck or any of that, but so far I have found the 2 chapters interesting. Not sure, but I think the idea he put forth about food, energy and how our brains got bigger is still (and maybe always will be) theoretical, but I have heard this idea before and it is surely interesting to contemplate. I don’t expect everything he puts forth as science or evolution will be 100% accurate or proven, but I have also come to realize over my long journey to deeper breath that no one really truly understands how breathing works in the body and that it probably varies quite a bit form person to person, if not in physiology, then in concept.

By the way, the guy in San Fran with the hole in his jeans for his tail was fun and completely believable.

[Jaime Johnson (viola)]

Hi all! I’m having a much easier time reading this book than the Deep Practicing book we read. This is very novel-like so I’ve set aside my other reading for the time being and am just reading this book. It’s engaging but I question the objectivity of the writer.

For the record, I would never participate in a study like this unless my life or the life of a very close loved one depended on it. I have experimented (while sitting on my couch) with breathing with smaller inhales and less frequently and surprisingly I found myself panicking and can only do it about 5 times in a row. I find it scary to breath less. I’ve encountered this problem with classical singing lessons and not having quite enough air to get to the end of the phrase, usually the last one or two beats.

About the Deep Practice book we just finished reading. It was more challenging to read for me but I have reviewed it and am writing an outline of the deliberate practice techniques for my own practice routine.

[Anne Brüggemann (violin)]

As Noa, I was horrified by the bad effects of mouth breathing and even more by the supposed proportion of mouth breathers versus nose breathers in America. Am I blind? I cannot confirm this outside of endurance exercise in my circles, neither internationally nor here in Germany. I don’t know what happens in my sleep. I might try a nose tape eventually. I know that I change the position of my jaw, putting it forward, but always with my mouth closed. That might be a habit that was formed by trying to catch the violin with my chin…
I trust the author’s research, and he has interesting things to say on YouTube. He even has a course on the British platform Maestro on breathing. To be honest and for what it is worth, I don’t find his voice and his posture too appealing. To me, the voice is a little bit strained and the head-neck relationship a little bit inflexible. Not that I would do better myself, necessarily. I’d be interested to know if others have a similar impression.

[Astrid Chan ( Piano)]

Dear all

It was such an eye opening experience to read this book. As I read the quote “…..He who follows this will live. He who acts against this will die.” from 500 Zhou Dynasty stone Inscription. I was thinking, ” Really? If I breath wrong, I will die?”

I didn’t realize how bad the mouth breathing is until more researches and experiments this book indicates have shown symptoms of high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke,stress, change of physical configuration…and etc. I thought based on my reactions to seasonal allergies,it would only be dry tongue, loud snoring and occasional stomach discomfort and swallowing some dirty substances. The hidden danger of mouth breathing has revealed as I read along the book.

Last night right before I fell sleep, I caught myself opening my mouth to breath and I immediately shut my mouth.

I m very happy that I am more aware of my breathing now. 😄

[Bonnie Bowman (Cello)]

I found chapters 3 & 4 rather bland and I am looking forward to reading all your thoughts. They are as interesting or more than the book!

I was interested in Schroth’s work because a dear friend of mine has scoliosis, and recently, it has been bothering her more. Since I knew she was looking for a physical therapist, I googled Schroth Method and discovered that it is offered through some medical centers here in the US. She is now looking into what is available near her.

I haven’t yet gotten the alternate nose breathing attached to a routine so that I remember to do it, but I would like to experiment with it. I am trying to tape my mouth shut at night. After 3 nights it has produced no noticeable changes except a more tender upper lip. His situation was more compromised so larger earlier changes for him might be expected.

It’s still an interesting, although heavily biased, read.

[Noa Kageyama]

My thoughts for chapters 3 & 4:

Intrigued by the rationale for alternate nostril breathing. Will have to look into this further as it relates to performance and regulating anxiety.

Also intrigued by the idea that nasal breathing is more efficient and allows lungs to extract more oxygen. Never would have thought the “use it or lose it” concept applies to nasal breathing…

Ah, mouth taping! I guess I really do have to try this now. I think my son and I will try this when he comes home for spring break in a week or two. He has had some sinus or respiratory issues in the past and reports fatigue even when getting a fair bit of sleep, so will be curious to see how he feels at the end of the week.

Want to learn more about increasing lung capacity. Wondering if Nestor will share more about how exactly to do this…

Breathing (avoiding the tendency to hold one’s breath) and exhaling was something that was emphasized by some folks when I was doing Brazilian jiu jitsu. Exhaling fully was something I really focused on when trying to quickly recover between rounds of “rolling” (aka sparring). Of course, now I’m curious to see how things would have felt if I had prioritized breathing through my nose DURING the rolls themselves too…

Ahhh! I was at Aspen in ‘92. If only I would have had an awareness of this then I might have seen that workshop…I was always a mouth breather when playing. I had some teachers (and a mom) who tried to get me to close my mouth, but I always stubbornly resisted…

[Jaime Johnson (viola)]

<div>I found it interesting to note that many cultures world wide have traditions of nose breathing and shun mouth breathing, all before the internet too…</div><div>

I also wonder if your lungs can increase their expansion through some flexibility in the ribs if you suffer from Pectus excavatum, a collaped position of the breast bone.

And who knew the nose could do so much more than help the ears hold up glasses?

</div>

[Makiko Takahashi (Piano)]

I’ve found that it’s becoming more and more interesting to find out how powerful breathing is. I’ve read many books mentioning how important breathing is (such as tension in performance, anxiety, and the relationship with health and wellbeing) but none of them persuaded me enough to change the way I breath. But I am now rethinking the way I breath after reading this book.

As I mentioned already, I have been doing tongue/mouth excersise which help me to do nose breathing rather than mouth breathing. My father was recommended to do this tongue/mouth excersise every day by a doctor to improve breathing and swallowing of food, preventing the risk of choking on food.

I also remembered how my Indian neibough freind had told me how both of her grandparents lived over 100 years healthily. Apparently they both did Yoga every morning for many years religiously. I’m guessing that Yoga + breathing must have contributed to them living so long. I’m interested in reading more about the benefits of breathing correctly.

[Angela Alves (piano)]

More interesting bits in chapters 3 & 4. I do believe there’s some facts here that mainstream medicine refuses to accept or investigatge. I’ve been working out and doing Yoga consistently for several weeks now and just finally figured out how to breathe with movements (Yoga is only once a week) and it felt so amazing when I finally got the moves down and coordinated the breath. And it carries on to the rest of the day feeling relaxed, refreshed and aware of breathing.

[Julia Pritz (harp)]

My takeaways of this weeks chapters:

I searched pictures of the turbinates online, because i could not imagine how the inside part of the nose looks like – and i was really surprised by how much room the nose takes up! (And finally i know where the covid-test rod went.)

I found the pulsation of the nostrils very interesting and that they pulse in response to ones mood or mental state.

I will try the breathing-excercise with the alternate nostrils this week before practicing to see if it influences my concentration.

The focus on exhaling in chapter 4 was interesting, because until now i only paid attention to the inhale (when i was meditating for instance).

[Lisa Morris (percussion/timpani)]

After Week One, I found myself wondering, “What about the exhale?” I’m glad that is being addressed in the chapters for this week. I’ve been paying more attention to my own breathing patterns and breathing through my nose this week. I am surprised by how much I engage in mouthbreathing without realizing it.

[Diane Lipartito (bassoon)]

I was wondering if he would mention Carl Stough. I learned about him in the early 2000’s through the Continuum Movement people I mentioned last week. I had seen (and may have a VHS tape copy) of the documentary about him which I found, now, on YouTube.

Some of his discoveries were revolutionary to me because it was the first time I heard anyone talk about the diaphragm going in the wrong direction or working well on one side and being stuck on the other in a lopsided way and many other contortions that were possible when things go awry which he discovered working with emphysema patients who developed all kinds of internal spasms due to chronic coughing and the disease itself. It was of interest to me because I had always perceived my diaphragm and maybe other internal workings (some now say we have many diaphragms throughout the body that can effect breathing, not just the big one attached to our ribs) were either stuck, moving opposite to how they
were supposed to or a combination of things that was hindering me taking relaxed breaths. Unfortunately, it was nearly impossible to find out how he worked with people since he didn’t leave much behind. I wasn’t at Aspen in ’92, but like Noa, I wish I had come in contact with this guy at some point. He was exactly the kind of person I was looking for back when I was a student in the late ’70’s and into the ’80’s and ’90’s to help me with my stuck or traumatized breathing when I was telling everyone I could think of about this problem and they all looked at me (teachers in particular) like I was crazy or overly obsessed. Breathing is just “natural” after all, ‘What’s the problem?’ I almost did go crazy. Alas, no internet in those days. There was a Stough Institute that existed when I found out about him 20 some years ago, but again, he was already gone and so were most of his methods. When Martin, Stough’s assistant, talked about a rise in the diaphragm while lowering the ribs, I wasn’t completely sure what she meant, but I notice when I exhale and my diaphragm rises, I get better results when my ribs also relax down in the process. It wasn’t clear if that, or something like it, was what she was referring to

The Scroth Method and orthopedic breathing also sounds interesting. I want to look into some of those methods even though I don’t have scoliosis.

I had kind of figured out already–especially in the the past year or so– that I was not exhaling completely causing a type of breath holding which brought tension or strain in my body (my middle and upper back in particular with shoulders rising) when I tried to get a good inhale to play. This has recently gotten better, but it is still not completely natural yet and I still have to remind myself.

The Chinese adage he/Scroth mentions: “When the breath is perfect the form is perfect,” is also something I can related to as of late. I’ve never been that interested in form for form’s sake as is often the case in the Western world. Form, in an external conception, often does little to solve or heal things on its own, I think, or at the very least, it can easily be undone, but form that comes from an internal means such as a fully integrated breathing process is different. That’s been my experience. When my diaphragm releases in the back and my lower back is free to engage and my middle and upper back are relaxed, my whole spine straightens out, my shoulders don’t fall forward and my lower back doesn’t get tired when I sit and some of my little chronic knotty back patterns are relieved.

I’m getting a lot out of this book.

[Ray Gornik (piano)]

The last I performed in front of a live audience was pre-covid. As I sat in the pit waiting to play I looked at my fitbit and saw my heart rate was 145 bpm. A bit high for one who was in his late 60’s. Since that time I’ve tried to practice my ‘performance’ routine by raising my heart rate to mimic what seems to naturally happen in my body before playing in front of a live audience. After reading these chapters I’m hoping to change my approach and learn how to calm myself so my heart rate and all that it entails is more manageable. This will probably a better long term solution since I’m not getting any younger. After just 2 weeks of practicing some of these breathing techniques my at-rest heart rate has gone from 68 bpm to 62 bpm, and my sleep is improving too. Thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences, successes and soon to be successes.

[Scott]

I continue to find this book really interesting. The discussion on alternate nostril breathing and focus on exhalation was interesting from experiencing those in various Yoga scenarios – I’ve appreciated them for their own sake but it’s really interesting that they might have scientific backing that aligns with the claims of the yoga instructors. I seemed to benefit this week experimenting with focusing on a good exhale before I breathed to play, rather than a good inhale. I look forward to learning more!

[Astrid Chan ( Piano)]

Ever since I began to read this book ” Breath”, I have changed the way I breathe from occasional mouth breathing (due to my seasonal allergy) to almost 100% nose breathing. My breath has also become longer and deeper since I am more aware of it. Last night I just purchased my very first mouth tape, can’t wait to try it and share my experience with you all.

In addition, I want to do more research on how Carl Stough helped the singers to expand their lung capacity since I am currently a choir director. There are so many new things for me to learn regarding breathing and I am looking forward to the next chapters.

[Ray Gornik (piano)]

Hi, I’m also going to try and find out how to breath better for singing and humming. If you find anything interesting let me know, and I will also.

[Ray Gornik (piano)]

Interesting reading. The nose songs exercise in the Appendix has been very helpful. Using the technique to hum each part as I learn Clair de lune. I’m also trying to figure out how to use Breathing while playing the piece, it’s a challenge with all the Tempo changes.
Breathing through the nose while exercising has been interesting the last couple of weeks. When I first started incorporating the two activities I was out of breath toward the end of each set. It is getting better and I’ll keep on doing it.
I’m also trying to restrict air inflow to see how my diaphragm responds. I’m blocking one nostril completely and restricting the other about half. I do this sitting down. Trying to make a vacuum effect. I do sit when trying this, haven’t gotten dizzy at all. I unblock and exhale slowly out of both nostrils. I’m going to try and block the exhale some in the future to train my breathing for the humming longer phrases and maybe even sing a little bit.
My thought is why not try different things and see what happens. The author certainly put himself out there so I’m being a bit more adventurous. It’s been a fun week trying different approaches.

[Noa Kageyama]

I was hoping for more details on the how-to aspect of how to breathe slower. Was resonant breathing basically it?

Also don’t know that I understood the bit about lungs as a weight-regulating system. That seemed to be mentioned briefly but wasn’t really expanded on…maybe in a later chapter?

Oh, ok, he starts getting into more of the nuts and bolts of breathing less on the context of running in chapter 6…though it doesn’t sound pleasant…

My son and I did try the mouth tape last night. I didn’t notice it at all during the night, so I think it’ll be pretty easy to continue the experiment. My wife doesn’t remember if I snored at all or not, so we’ll have to see how that goes. Haven’t had a chance to ask my son what his experience was yet, as he’s still sleeping. Even though it’s 3pm. Wait…maybe I should check on him and make sure he’s ok?! 😳 (he’s fine, just FYI)

Oh, one amusing side effect of mouth tape. We forgot that it’s nigh impossible to talk when your mouth is taped. So he couldn’t turn the lights off in his room (voice activated with Alexa), nor could I, so my wife had to do it. 🤣

[Ray Gornik (piano)]

Hi, wasn’t able to copy and paste link weight-loss article in Washington Post 2016. I typed ‘when you lose weight where does it go washington post’ and the article came up. Here’s a quote “An exhalation itself isn’t going to tap into your fat stores in any significant way, but the huffing and puffing that occurs during an intense workout will be full of the sweet spoils of weight loss”. That goes against the slow breathing during exercise that James N refers too. I’m sure this is more complicated than what I’m understanding and presenting here.

It seemed to me that the Resonant Breathing instructions on page 221 sets the tone for the exercise/prayer/asthma discussions in chapters 5 & 6. On page 246 there are references to articles about Controlled Breathing, Slow Deep Breathing, etc. The book didn’t give much in the way of detailed explanations concerning Resonant Breathing.

My 1st night using the tape was also funny. I didn’t want my wife to know what I was doing so I placed the Tape on the edge of the nightstand and after turning on the lights tried to find it and place on my lips. Couldn’t find it at first, then got in twisted up, then placed on lips crooked. 2nd night was better.

[Jessica Platt (violin)]

That’s about the funniest thing I’ve read of your posts! (:

[Bonnie Bowman (Cello)]

Euphoria is a known low oxygen phenomenon. I think they used to use it as a sign that a pilot was going hypoxic and needed to land in the early days of airflight. People self strangulate to get the high. I don’t agree this should be a goal. I also remember a cousin telling me he came to a conference in Denver from where he lived in San Antonio. Went for a morning jog, was impressed that he could do his usual distance at altitude then he looked at his jog time- way slower. I thought that those of us who live at higher altitudes created more red blood cells increasing our ability to extract oxygen. Could this have accounted for the increased performance of the breathe-less training strategies? Did I miss that discussion?

Those of us around folks with anxiety know that to slow down the breathing is to focus on slowing the exhale. I agree with him and the yogis et al of history that controlling our breath is crucial to improve physical health. I would go further that it will improve mental health. We will see if that comes up.

[Julia Pritz (harp)]

I realized some time ago in yoga that i am a comparatively “slow breather” (i had to breath faster to keep up with the instructions, i would have been slower if i had done the exercises at my own pace). So this chapter was interesting because i was wondering if i was breathing “too slow” and if there is a need to change this. Fortunately i didn’t do that.

The importance of CO2 for the body and the role it plays in the “distribution” of oxygen was very interesting, as was the length of the optimal breath (how that is reflected in various traditions around the world) and its consequences (optimal coordinated body functions).

Even though I breathe slowly i am definitely guilty of overbreathing – I developed the habit of deep belly breathing. So I think i will try to inhale a little less whenever i’m aware of my breathing (which surprisingly has been the case more often recently :).

I am wondering if or when the author will address the issue of the pause between the breaths.

[Ray Gornik (piano)]

If you are thinking about Box Breathing there is a description of it on page 229. Inhale 5 sec, hold 5, exhale 5, hold 5. It looks like he gives two time components for different occasions. Hope this helps.

[Julia Pritz (harp)]

Thanks Ray, i was thinking more of a kind of unconscious break after exhaling. I think this was covered in a way in a later chapter and called “email apnoe” or s.th. like this. Maybe that covers my “break” (or I’m getting a little over-sensitive with all this attention on my breathing ;-))

[Jaime Johnson (viola)]

Hello all. I like the writing style of this author and read the book straight away. I only noticed that there is an appendix of breathing exercise instructions at the end of the book yesterday. I’ve been reading on my Kindle app and find keeping track of pages more difficult. I’m going to pick one of the exercises this week and try it daily. Will share my experiences next week.

[Scott]

I’m a bit behind in the reading schedule but couldn’t recall if I should post by Sunday to keep my involvement going, but I did think of a question an earlier chapter raised for me: At one point he mentions rinsing out his sinuses. How would one do such a thing? Is this related to the Neti pot vocalists swear by? Anyway, I look forward to getting back on track and reading more!

[Laura Stuart]

Hi! I have been reading but not posting (mea culpa!) but this is my second time through Breath and I’m enjoying it again, although with the same issues as others- especially Nestor’s obvious bias. Forgive my long post- catching up!

I’m also finding the book less and less applicable to my real life as I go on, which reflects my experience last time. The nose v. Mouth portion was very interesting, but once we got past the exhalation and slow breathing parts, I’ve lost momentum.

Reading as a singer, I’ve found it interesting that the book focuses on either the nose and mouth or the speed of breath and doesn’t get too specific with the anatomy and function of the diaphragm/intercostals and all the sort of “torso-level” stuff that tends to dominate the discussion in vocal pedagogy (at least in my experience). I’m curious about playing with breath speed as a potential “external focus” rather than all the internal technical things I tend to focus on.

I did want to mention that yes, I believe Nestor is talking about the Neti pot for sinus lavage. It was very hot among singers when I was in conservatory, but never did much for me (luckily, I don’t suffer from a lot of congestion). Just a warning- if you try it, pay careful attention to the temperature of the water and the salinity of your solution- it makes the difference between a very painful experience and a weird but not unpleasant one!

While I’m offering my 2 cents, my husband has been mouth taping for years and finds that the Somnifix mouth tapes stay on better and are more comfortable than using surgical tape, especially if you have facial hair.

And finally, because I listened to this one on audiobook, I totally missed the exercises last time (they’re all at the end). I’m looking forward to trying them this time.

Phew! I’m done.

[Astrid Chan ( Piano)]

My 10 year old son has been sleeping with his mouth open for years due to his seasonal allergy and I didn’t know how much it could possibly effect his health until I began to read this book.

We both have mouth tape on this morning for a while to see how it felt like. The tape did reduce the possibility of mouth breathing but not 100% because it can’t seal our lips completely so we can still breathe in through the small hole between our lips.

Also, I practiced at 5-6 breaths a minute as Ch. 5 suggested and realized it was a lot slower than how I normally would breathe.

The mouth tape can be very handy if my son can’t stop talking…^^

[Diane Lipartito (bassoon)]

I too have further questions about the science, particularly how they think it works in weight loss, Maybe there are other sources in the world that can help explain those things more. Is the weight loss due to endocrine and metabolism regulation, water regulation in the body and/or something to do with the molecular biochemical process that involves things being expelled through exhalation (vs. sweat and urine)?

The withholding of breath reminds me of something I do periodically when I feel like I can’t get a comfortable relaxed breath. I don’t call it “holding the breath,” but I think of it as suspending the breath because when I think of holding, it seems to activate muscles when I want them to relax. When I suspend the breath after small inhales or exhales it seems to allow my innards to find their natural place or organize in a way that does not involve over activation (which in me, may have come from a triggered pattern since, from about age 15 or so, breathing has been a tense experience.) I don’t know if this, in any way, on some minimalist scale, has a relationship to the explanation he gave about how co2 helps brings more oxygen to the blood or not, and if it does, does that have something to do with the comfort I derive from my little suspensions. I would like to experiment with this more during exertion, but haven’t yet. I definitely want to look into Carbon Dioxide and its benefits more.

It’s interesting. I have always taken slow small breaths and people, such as a voice teacher, body work practitioners, doctors, possibly on occasion, bassoon teachers, and others, who have asked for me to take a big breath for one reason or another have often commented, “Is that it?!” and saw a problem there as in, I was breathing too high, I wasn’t breathing from the belly, etc. I, no doubt, was breathing too high, but that wasn’t the whole story because it was worse if I tried to gulp in the larger breath they thought was better for me. I would say, ‘Yes, this is what is comfortable.’ I think I also knew that it wasn’t the quantity of the air, but how it was used. Now it makes more sense and I feel like it was just a very natural/intuitive way for me to try and untangle things internally. When the breath is the problem, how do you use the breath to solve that problem? It’s tricky. I am starting to focus even more on slow breathing now and it is bringing things to another level.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Diane Lipartito (bassoon).

[Bonnie Bowman (Cello)]

Well my book came from I interlibrary loan and now must be returned. So at every opportunity over the last two days I have been reading to finish it. The chapter on chewing had a few interesting ideas. My grandson told me that when he was actively singing in performance they were told to chew gum to warm up their mouths. He has no crooked teeth. I may try chewing gum for a bit ….

The next few chapters on breathing more and holding one’s breath were interesting. Especially the theory that people who have to deal with a serious level of anxiety may actually have a carbon dioxide chemoreceptor/amygdala connection issue rather than a psychological issue.

The book has me thinking more seriously about the importance of how I breath and it’s relationship to my mental and physical health, my posture and more. I copied off the exercises so that I can incorporate some into my daily routine.

Finally, the epilogue is a great summary read.

[Laura Stuart]

Ok, just finished, and this time I tried the exercises (missed them the first time I read Breath). The carbon dioxide training breath (basically short inhale, long exhale) felt very familiar, since it’s basically what the rhythm of breath is when singing. I found that I really disliked the exercises that involved holding the breath IN but didn’t mind holding the breath out or extended exhalation. Thinking about this made me think back on the book- did Nestor attribute any particular benefits to holding the breath in? I don’t remember any and admit I didn’t take notes as I read.

[Jessica Platt (violin)]

I’ve been horrible about reading this book, yet somehow it’s changing the way I breathe! (; I have been doing breathing exercises in many different ways and asking questions to friends-mentors-etc about this! (; I plan on getting caught up as soon as the book is over. (; ha. Plane rides are great for this kind of reading. (;

[Noa Kageyama]

Hmm…I do remember my orthodontist telling me years ago that if my tongue kept pushing against my front teeth, that they would go out of alignment. Curious about this “mewing” exercise…

[Makiko Takahashi (Piano)]

I’m more and more fascinated by all the findings by various doctors in the book. Although I’ve read many books on health/nutrition and practiced it, I had never realised how breathing can influence our health so much. It has become a lot clearer to me why a number of doctors in Japan have been warning us not to mouth breath. And also many doctors/nutritionists have been advising us to chew harder food at least 30 times for a health benefit.

My tongue position is getting better after I started to do the tongue/mouth exercises in the last 7 months (after my father was advised to do so by a doctor). This exercise seems to be justified by the findings in this book too.

I’ve started to have a hope that maybe I could become a better sleeper by changing the way I breath. I have always been a terrible sleeper and I’m very interested in finding out which breathing method may help me. Thank you for introducing me to this book. It’s been such a fascinating journey for me so far.

[Diane Lipartito (bassoon)]

Chapter 7 is fascinating. I have tried Mewing, though I want to look on YouTube to get more advice about doing it correctly. It has already had the effect of relaxing my neck and upper back. The idea of it is very counter-intuitive for a bassoonist as we are usually taught to bring in more air by dropping the jaw and lowering the tongue. This is especially encouraged to play in the very low register. I am wondering if this concept is wrong and is actually causing a constriction in airflow vs. allowing an open route for more air to come in, at least for some, me included, maybe. I’m going to need some experimentation with this.

Loved the story of the Cata-philes (can’t remember if that’s the name he used for the Catacomb divers). Like Makiko just mentioned, the stories of all the different doctors and their experiments and methods are really helpful to know about. Would love to try a Homeoblock, but like everything in oral care, it is grossly overpriced and cost prohibitive (I can barely afford a filling these days). I know it would help me with my small mouth–I have a high uvula, but my tongue has the molar impressions on the side which has been the case since I was a kid–but it is not do-able, so I will have to stick with the cheaper Mewing technique.

Chapter 8 brought me back to my youth. Groff and Holotropic Breathwork was really popular in the 80’s and 90’s and classes and workshops in it were offered at many holistic health institutions. I never tried it and his description of the class he participated in kind of reminds me why I never got curious about it back then. Another popular method of the 80’s/90’s was Ilana Rubenfeld’s synergy method (not in the book). Don’t know if she used breath, but she combined somatic work with talk therapy. I was reminded about her while hearing him talk about Groff, got curious and looked her up. Just discovered that she began life as a conductor who was struggling to make her way in a male dominated field. It all came to a halt due to painful shoulder spasms. She began working as an Alexander teacher and studied with Feldenkrais, then developed her own method. Ha, never knew that she was a musician. Never heard of Tummo, but keeping the practice from the general public was reminiscent of how, even still in the 80’s, some Yoga teachers would not teach Pranayama. I had such a teacher who was a bit of a purist and studied with a guru in NYC. They felt that it could be neurologically overstimulating and dangerous and that unless you were specifically a master in it and you were there for the constant guidance of you students–in case something went wrong–you should not teach it. I did learn a bit from an Indian Guru who was sponsored by one of my yoga classmates who came for about a week to teach some of us the basics. He didn’t follow those rules, though maybe he was supposed to. Chapter 8 was a little walk down memory lane.

[Astrid Chan ( Piano)]

I’m behind our current reading schedule but I do have an interesting experience imagining a feather on my nose without moving it when I breathe, as what the Samurai was trained. ( Ch.5)

It took so much focus and awareness to control particularly the out breath and I almost felt like I was not breathing at all since the breath movement became so subtle.

Now I am excited to get a real feather to try it out!

[Diane Lipartito (bassoon)]

I liked the explanation of electrons, oxygen, saturation and oxidation (not sure I understand how advantages of co2 fits in with all of that). As well, I appreciated how he described how yoga began and the Indus Valley Civilization and also, Swami Rama’s advice about eliminating the pause between inhale and exhale. That makes a lot of sense to me and something I have worked on. With my music practice since we have started the book, I realize that when I breathe through my mouth to play, it all works better if I make sure my nasal passages where they go into the mouth/throat remain open and not pinched off. I think I have a tendency to constrict there when I take a breath through my mouth. This helps with keeping the breath more continuous and relaxed when I play.

He didn’t get much into the lower respiratory areas, though I think Karl Stough worked with the inner workings of the torso a lot. It’s unfortunate he left so little of his methods behind. I think, in terms of my personal path, I have put most of my attention there and little on the mouth and throat except for the basics of playing. I really hadn’t run across much info about it until now, with the exception of the old Pranayama exercises I learned back in the 80’s/90’s. The info in this book helped me better connect my upper respiratory and lower respiratory areas, filling in some important missing links for me.

[Ray Gornik (piano)]

I must have read chapters 8, 9, and 10 too fast to really understand how it fit in with the previous chapters. I’ll be re-reading them before the next book club starts. All in all the book gave me many ideas that have sparked some of my own experimentation, especially with resistance exercise and the 5.5 second breath regime. I’m also trying to work a breathing routine with Moonlight sonata movement 1, to see if I can develop a flow of breath with the music. This is a bit more complicated than with the exercise routine since the musical phrasing is not as predictable as exercising. It’s starting to feel more like ‘singing breathing’ with different lengths of inhale and exhale. It’s been interesting. I’ve enjoyed many of the comments and insights. Best to all of YOU!!!

[Diane Lipartito (bassoon)]

Hi Ray,

Good luck on your breathing journeys both with and away from your music practice and performance. I hope you get your heart rate down before performances, that would be a great skill to attain. I am going to work on that too.

I’ve enjoyed reading your comments.